30 Dec The Moon, Indigenous Cultures, And Space Sustainability With Justin Ahasteen, Giuliana Rotola, And Les Tennen
How can we both explore and maintain the Moon for the next generation and beyond? And how should principles of environmental sustainability on Earth and indigenous conceptions of Nature and the Moon guide our approach to space exploration? Executive Director of the Navajo Nation Justin Ahasteen, interdisciplinary lawyer Giuliana Rotola, and space lawyer Les Tennen explore these and other topics with hosts M.C. Sungaila and Michelle Hanlon.
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Listen to the podcast here
The Moon, Indigenous Cultures, And Space Sustainability With Justin Ahasteen, Giuliana Rotola, And Les Tennen
We are grateful to the NASA Space Fund for a seed grant to the University of Mississippi Center for Air and Space Law to fund these conversations. For this first set of conversations, we have been focusing on the moon and lunar activities and cis-lunar activities, and we are turning that focus toward sustainability and considerations of Indigenous viewpoints in that regard. Michelle, I will turn it to you to introduce our amazing panelists and start our discussion.
Sustainability And Indigenous Perspectives On Lunar Exploration
Thank you so much, CE. This is an area of space exploration and space law that is very near and dear to my heart, and I love it when we think about bringing in different voices. One of the voices that has been notoriously missing in space law and space exploration is the indigenous voice. Exploring how we can honor those voices, listen to those voices, and hear those voices will also help us understand how to be sustainable and look at the use of resources in space from perspectives that we have not necessarily been pursuing here on Earth.
I’m delighted to welcome Les Tennen, a space lawyer, an attorney at law in private practice at Sterns and Tennen, and chair of the International Institute of Space Law Election Committee. He’s a co-chair of the International Institute of Space Law Manfred Lachs Moot Court Committee. He is legal counsel and a member of the Board of Trustees of the International Academy of Astronautics. He is also the former commissioner of the Arizona Space Commission and a member of the IAA Board of Trustees from 2023 to 2025. I will preface all of this by saying our panelists and guests are extremely accomplished, and I am shortening their bios considerably. I encourage you to find them on LinkedIn and online to see some of the incredible work they have been doing.
Giuliana Rotola is an interdisciplinary lawyer and junior fellow at the Outer Space Institute. She holds a joint bachelor’s and master’s degree from the University of Trento in Comparative European and Transnational Law and a Master of Space Studies from the International Space University. She has conducted research at the European Center for Space Law and the Institut du Droit de l’espace et des Telecommunications and worked at the Leuven Centre for Global Governance Studies.
Giuliana is also a research fellow at the Open Lunar Foundation, a 2020 fellow in space studies at the Foresight Institute, and a member of the Legal Council for All Mankind. On top of all that, she co-hosts the podcast and blog New Moon, aimed at creating an inclusive and diverse future for lunar explorations. Be sure to check that out.
Finally, Justin Ahasteen is the Executive Director of the Washington Office of the Navajo Nation. Justin carries a legacy that is as diverse as it is profound, hailing from a rich tapestry of cultural backgrounds. Justin, I’m not going to embarrass myself by trying to pronounce your lineage, and I hope that you’ll introduce yourself because the way you do it is so lyrical. With that, I am going to turn it over to you, ask you to introduce yourself, and then talk about the Navajo relationship with the moon and walk us through the importance of space and the moon to you.
Cultural Preservation And Space Law
My name is Justin Ahasteen. I’m the Executive Director for the Navajo Nation Washington Office, and we first and foremost appreciate the opportunity to have a seat at the table when we are discussing the future of lunar governance and what our future in space looks like as we gather and envision humanity’s future among the stars.
I’d like to begin with a perspective that is rooted in our sacred relationship with the moon as Navajo people. As Navajo people, we refer to the moon as Shimasani or our grandmother, and it serves not just as a celestial body but as a living deity that has a profound presence in our stories, our traditions, and our ceremonies.
As I stated, she is a guide and a teacher, and she reminds us of all the rhythms of life, the balance, and the values that sustain us. She’s been there through our darkest points in history, from the Long Walk of 1864, where thousands of Navajos were forcibly marched from Arizona to Fort Sumner, New Mexico. In some of the harshest winters, it was there during World War II, helping guide our Navajo code talkers to bring them home safely and to help secure that victory against our enemies.
We have a profound respect for the moon because she, again, lights the darkness in our lives. When we see the moon remake herself during an eclipse, our people pause, reflect, and reconnect. It’s a moment of humility as we continue our prayers and respect her in that way. When there’s an eclipse, we turn away from her out of reverence. We recognize that even celestial bodies, even these deities, deserve their privacy as they remake themselves.
That belief teaches something powerful to us. The moon is not an object to be possessed or exploited but is a shared part of our collective human heritage. In Navajo teachings, everything in nature is interwoven. The moon’s role is sacred and central to maintaining harmony not just for us but for all life. As humanity embarks on this new journey toward the moon, we hope that reverence, understanding, balance, and reciprocity will guide us into this new era. Overall, the Navajo Nation is focused on ensuring thoughtful exploration that respects the moon’s spiritual and environmental integrity and protects it for future generations because we only have one moon, and we don’t want it to be disrupted in any way.
The Moon is not an object to be possessed or exploited; rather, it is a shared part of our collective human heritage.
Thanks, Justin. I want to ask if there was a mission to the moon. A company was planning to send what they called human cremains to the moon. Now, I want to be very clear this wasn’t a mission to spread ashes on the moon. These were discrete amounts of ashes placed into special titanium tubes, intended to land on the moon and remain on the body of the spacecraft. The Navajo Nation objected to that, and there’s history here. There are already ashes on the moon, much to the chagrin of the Navajo Nation. When you objected, some people said, “You can’t turn the moon into your religion. It’s not yours.” How did you respond to that?
Ownership And Sovereignty In Space Exploration
My response is our intent was never to claim the moon. Our intent was to assert that nobody owns it. Even by sending ashes of your loved ones, does that not equate to a claim of ownership now that those remains are there? The minute there’s an attempt to disturb those remains, there may be objections from those individuals or families. Overall, we’re primarily focused on ensuring there isn’t an element of ownership because, again, the moon isn’t something to be controlled or possessed. It is something for all of us to enjoy, and we must be cognizant of our actions in space and how we treat the moon, especially something so spiritually and culturally significant not only to the Navajo Nation but to hundreds of indigenous nations across the globe.
As the Navajo Nation and as other tribes, we hold sovereign status as governments. Part of the issue is that many decisions are being made at a commercial level without input from actual governments that may be impacted. That is the focus of our objections. While there may be sympathy for our religious arguments, that is not the basis of our case. It is a component, but the main basis is that we are a sovereign government, and we should have a seat at the table when these decisions are made because they do impact us. Whether people think they do or not, there is a real impact. Many tribes operate under laws and customs heavily influenced by ceremonial practices.
When you mentioned human cremains being put on the moon, many people don’t understand the Navajo people’s attitude toward death. In Navajo culture, we place profound importance on harmony and beauty, which are deeply rooted in cultural and spiritual approaches. It’s so strict that we have an entire law and policy called the Giists’ah policy that highlights steps our government must take to warn people of the potential health consequences of interacting with death.
This importance has even been seen through congressional legislation. The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act, for instance, includes a consultation requirement when disturbing human remains involving Native American tribes. The point here is that we have laws surrounding this. Our laws are impacted, and it is, frankly, a diminishment of the sovereignty of tribes when decisions are made or privatized or personal interests are prioritized above those of an actual sovereign government.
Legal Frameworks And Ethical Considerations For Lunar Exploration
You’ve said so much there about that concept of sovereignty. One thing I have learned in the months I’ve had the honor of working with you is that we tend to say “The indigenous community” and think of it as some monolith, but it’s not. The Indigenous community around the world is as diverse as any other concept of the globe that we have. Giuliana, you’ve worked with the Maori community in New Zealand, and I wonder how much commonality is there with what you’ve heard from Justin? How much is completely different or perhaps, what other areas do you see being highlighted?
I want to start by saying that I am a European Italian person. I don’t want to speak on behalf of the Maori communities and people I have been talking with. I come more from a place of learning, and I try to be part of this journey of changing the way we think about space and governance frameworks and how the processes we have put in place have been excluding communities all over the world. As you mentioned, I spent some time studying Indigenous law in Canada and also in New Zealand, specifically at the New Zealand Centre for Indigenous People and the Law, and I was very lucky.
I want to start by saying that I was very lucky because I was in Aotearoa, New Zealand, in 2023 and 2024 for the Matariki celebrations, which mark the Maori New Year. The Maori New Year starts with the rising of the star cluster that is Matariki, which in my tradition is the Pleiades. This event signifies the start of the Maramataka which is the Maori lunar calendar. This calendar is deeply connected to the rhythms of the natural world, guiding agricultural practices, fishing, community life, and more. Each phase of the moon carries specific meanings and influences daily activities. Some days are considered optimal for planting or harvesting, while others are more reflective, encouraging rest and renewal.
Being there for these celebrations gave me a profound sense of how Maori traditions view celestial bodies like the moon in a way similar to what Justin described. The moon is not merely an object to study, it is a living entity woven into their cosmologies and daily life. The moon serves as a guide and timekeeper, playing a vital role in maintaining harmony with nature and sustaining well-being across generations and among all living beings.
The Moon is a guide and a timekeeper, playing a vital role in maintaining harmony with nature and sustaining well-being across generations and all living beings.
I have been deeply inspired by this and have also learned how we can try to transform and bring these perspectives to inform space governance. New Zealand offers a unique case because of its legal biculturalism. We have seen episodes in the New Zealand Parliament where Maori sovereignty faces some challenges, but there is still the existence of two different legal systems that allow for incorporating Maori legal perspectives into national and even international legal frameworks.
A few years ago, I came across a cabinet paper from the Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment when New Zealand joined the Artemis Accords. The paper discussed space resources and the Artemis Accords. What stood out to me was the inclusion of Maori concepts like whakapapa, which teaches genealogical origins tracing back to the beginning of the universe. Another concept mentioned was kaitiakitanga, which emphasizes guardianship of space and its resources and calls for shared responsibility for space.
Some of these concepts have also been incorporated into New Zealand’s space policy as there is growing recognition of the economic benefits Maori communities can gain as the New Zealand space sector develops. However, these benefits must be balanced with respect for Maori values and traditions. Not only that. It is also a question of sovereignty recognizing the legal standing of these peoples.
The Treaty of Waitangi is a relationship between the Crown, the New Zealand Government, and the Maori Sovereign state. We must recognize this relationship. The legal obligations are there and reflect this relationship in a way that we are going to space by reminding us that these obligations are not just perspectives that have to be included but must be respected and centered as a foundation. From my experience, I see room for Indigenous principles, cosmologies, and rights to influence the broader framework governing space like the Artemis Accords are doing. I’m excited to see how we can transform the way we discuss space, make decisions about space, and create a process that is inclusive not just ticking the box of discussing with people but bringing communities to the table with the private sector.
We think that bringing the Indigenous community to see the model of New Zealand is interesting. It has taken a very different path than the United States. One thing that we see coming out of New Zealand a lot, which some people ridicule while others applaud, is giving personhood to inanimate natural objects. Can you speak a little about what it would mean to give personhood to the moon?
I have been thinking about that as well. It’s hard because it’s easier to be done in a smaller context, like New Zealand. When you give personhood to a river, a mountain, or a park, and you have small communities living in their territory, sovereign in their territory, it’s easier for them to share the stewardship of that river or that mountain.
It’s like we see examples that work for that on Earth. We could give legal personhood to the moon, but the problem there is not the legal person itself, who is then a steward for the moon. If we give legal personhood to the moon, there would need to be a group of stewards who would speak on behalf of the moon and take care of it, because the moon cannot speak for itself in the COPUOS or United Nations, for example. Who are the stewards of the moon? How can we decide who the stewards of the moon are? That is the process that, like why processes need to be more inclusive because we can give legal personhood, but then if the people that are speaking for them are the same ones making decisions right now, we are still excluding lots of communities from all over the world.
Challenges In Including Indigenous Voices In Space Conversations
It sounds so hard. We have to get all these voices together, give them all a platform, listen to everybody, and then come up with a more governance framework. Les, you’ve been an advocate for space environmentalism and sustainability for a long time, and a real leader in this area. How do we bring these Indigenous voices onto the platform, into the conversation about space, and what is the best way to acknowledge and learn?
That’s a great question and there are no easy answers to any of this. How do we bring in the communities? We raise awareness, as you are doing with this show and what we have been working on for some time, and bring them into the different forums that already exist. For example, the main one, as you are well aware, is the Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space from the United Nations. They are looking at resource utilization on the moon as well as other activities and looking at the question of sustainability, although probably not to the depth that I would certainly like and that you may not like. It would be important to get something on the formal agenda of COPUOS that deals with this specific problem. Now, how is that done? It has to be done through a state, so it would be up to a country like New Zealand to raise it with COPUOS.
That’s one example, but there are other forums. The International Astronomical Union is very interested and concerned about development on the moon and sustainability aspects, in particular, because of the impact it may have on science. There are many of these formal organizations, as well as informal organizations, and it’s a matter of raising awareness and getting people involved.
There has been some movement within the United States to try to bring Indigenous populations into the conversation, but unfortunately, there hasn’t been a very good response from the Indigenous populations. The Navajo have been very active, but unfortunately, they are about the only ones who have been. If those who are most affected are not going to take a stand and get involved, it makes it that much more difficult for the rest of us who are trying to get something done.
I’m not a member of an Indigenous community, and I’m not looking at this from a spiritual aspect, as some others are. I’m looking at it more from the ethical and environmental aspects. I have more of a formalistic legal view of how things are going than the spiritual side, but it’s important to spread as much awareness as possible and bring people into the various conversations that are already going on.
It’s important to spread as much awareness as possible and involve people in the various conversations already taking place.
In addition to formal organizations like the United Nations Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space or the International Astronomical Union, there are all sorts of non-governmental organizations that hold events, conferences, seminars, and symposia, and it’s important to get involved with those as well. I do, from time to time, participate in some of those. For example, the International Astronomical Congress was held a couple of months ago in Milan, and I take every opportunity I can even if it is somewhat tangential to the main theme of the program to bring these issues up because they touch upon almost anything that we are going to try to do in space, especially on the moon.
Les, that’s an important point of contextualizing the discussions we’ve been having so far in terms of Indigenous perspectives. The question of sustainability in space and concerns along those lines are discussions already being had at the international level in some of the bodies you mentioned. One perspective on this is that yes, the Indigenous communities may bring different perspectives that should be considered in assessing sustainability, but they are not imposing a discussion that isn’t already being had in this arena. Rather, they are making it richer and adding to it.
I wanted to ask you, Les, you mentioned that your concerns were more legal and ethical and that you started in terms of your concern about environmentalism, responsibility, and sustainability in space. I was hoping we could explore your perspective on legal and ethical concerns and then put it in the broader context of who should be responsible for sustainability. Let’s start first with your perspective on the importance of this.
Legal And Ethical Concerns In Space Sustainability
I first became interested in the environmental aspects when looking at what’s called the planetary protection policy, which was developed by the Committee on Space Research, part of the International Council for Science, an international organization composed of national academies of science. COPUOS is the one area that’s specific to space, and they have a panel that is specific to what they term planetary protection. They are looking at it from a very narrow view, and that is preventing what’s called forward contamination or back contamination.
Forward contamination refers to spacecraft sent from Earth to another celestial body, particularly Mars, that may be carrying Earth organisms and could contaminate the Martian environment. Back contamination is returning samples from a place like Mars and protecting the environment of Earth. From there, my interest has expanded to the broader environmental aspects, of which planetary protection is only one part.
It is of crucial importance because if we don’t take steps early on and act proactively and preventively, it won’t be very long before the situation becomes unmanageable, and we have essentially destroyed the environment of the moon or another celestial body such as Mars before we even have a chance to explore it scientifically. We need the international community, in particular, to have these discussions and decide what is an appropriate use and what isn’t an appropriate use.
The second part of your question is who is responsible? The responsibility is shared on various levels internationally. We have the United Nations Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, but they are not a governance organization, although they are responsible for the development of the five treaties that are presently enforced, as well as other declarations of principles, which are commonly referred to as soft law documents. These are more aspirational guidelines than legal obligations, like the treaties.
We have the international level, where all countries of the world have a seat or could have a seat if they want. We also have the national level, where it’s up to individual states to take action. I’m particularly interested in New Zealand. It’s something I could discuss with Giuliana after all of this and bend her ear for quite a while on that particular aspect of things. In order for private sector activities to occur in space under international law, particularly the Outer Space Treaty, states have an obligation to authorize and continuously supervise the activities of non-governmental entities under their control.
It’s not just governments that have to abide by the various international treaty obligations, but also the private sector that has to abide by them. That enforcement comes through the national level. There’s also the level of individual actors, companies, and organizations involved in activities on the moon and elsewhere.
Some of them have internal ethical guidance, and some of them don’t. Some are guided by profit motives and leave off any ethical or philosophical considerations as long as they can make a dollar. That’s all they are particularly concerned about. This is where the government comes in and other users. For example, even though it’s not a regulatory agency, NASA is responsible for a number of private lunar landers that are in development through a program where NASA has purchased commercial services instead of developing its own launch vehicles and landing craft. They are trying to buy them from the commercial sector to boost the commercial sector.
The Future Of Space Diplomacy And The Role Of Indigenous Knowledge
Michelle mentioned a mission that cremated remains, not only of humans but of at least 1 animal, 1 dog. NASA was the main customer on that mission. That mission would not have been able to fly if NASA had not been participating, but NASA says they have no control over what the other payloads are. They view it more as if the lander is a common carrier and they are one of the customers.
However, they do have an obligation because that mission would not have flown without their participation. They paid over $100 million for that mission and the rest of it. It did carry all the payloads, but they were a very small percentage of any of that. The question is, at what point does NASA have a say in what could or could not be on those same spacecraft? At the moment, they are taking a very hands-off approach to all of this, but it could well come to a point where they have to start making some policy decisions.
I’d like to go back to something Michelle said that there are already ashes on the moon. For those who are not aware, the mission that went failed. It did not make it, the spacecraft developed a fuel leak shortly after it was launched. It never made it out of Earth’s orbit, never got anywhere near the surface of the moon, and came back and burned up in the atmosphere. Those ashes didn’t make it, and there were dozens of vials of ashes contained there. One of the big selling points of that mission, being a commercial mission, was the aspect of permanence that Justin brought up and how that affects appropriation. In almost every culture, there is a reverence for the dead, and disturbing the remains of dead people is taboo in almost every culture.
In almost every culture, there is a reverence for the dead, and disturbing the remains of deceased individuals is considered taboo.
If you create a graveyard on the moon, that is essentially appropriating that area, whether the ashes are spread or not. That cannot be disturbed, and there are also some legal aspects to that which bolster that. I want to raise the point about the ashes that are already on the moon. This ties back in with NASA. In the late 90s, NASA sent the Lunar Prospector mission to the moon. It went to the vicinity of the South Pole.
Shortly before that mission, a scientist named Gene Shoemaker, who is very well known, very famous, and very important in the history of space, unfortunately, was killed in a car accident. NASA decided, as a tribute to him, to take a vial of his ashes to the moon. They did not look at it from a policy perspective, and they have recognized since then that it was a very bad precedent.
The Navajo Nation formally objected, but it was after the fact because they were not aware before the mission went, before the launch, that it was going to be happening. I’m very glad that they are now taking a proactive stance. They tried to get involved with this mission and wanted to at least get it postponed until there could be a discussion about these issues. Unfortunately, they weren’t able to accomplish that.
The point I want to get to here is that NASA has acknowledged they made a mistake in sending Shoemaker’s ashes to the moon, that it set a bad precedent, and they have announced they will no longer do those kinds of missions. They won’t send any more ashes to the moon, but that doesn’t affect the private sector so much, so we need to coordinate and combine these various things.
Unfortunately, in the United States, the legal trend is moving in the other direction because of some recent rulings by the United States Supreme Court that severely limit the regulatory authority of the licensing agency, which in the United States is the Department of Transportation. It may take an act of Congress in order for some of these things to become legal obligations or be implemented by the regulatory agencies. That doesn’t necessarily reflect the case around the rest of the world. There are other avenues that can be pursued, but it is an uphill battle.
Les, you talked a little about a lot of international organizations, and you mentioned the United States. One thing that stuck out to me about what you said is the Department of Transportation. What we are seeing now, it’s not ashes for a small fee, you can send anything you want to the moon, and you noted that NASA created this precedent that you can send ashes to the moon. They created a precedent. The NASA astronauts left golf balls, feathers, Bibles, and pictures on the moon, and on the one hand, that’s cool and that’s what humans do. They like to leave reminders of themselves wherever they have been. We have seen that back in Pompeii you see graffiti, but how can we now say, “It was okay for Charlie Duke to put a picture on the moon, but nobody else should be able to do that.”
I want to go back to Justin for a minute and think about your objections to the cremains. What do you think it is, my sending my bracelet to the moon? It’s a double whammy question, but one other thing that Les said that was interesting was of the indigenous communities in the United States, it seems like the Navajo Nation is the only one willing to engage and interested in this. Is there a way that we can raise awareness and get people interested? Honestly, one of the issues with space law and space awareness is everything is COPUOS with IAC, IISL, and IAU, and it’s like if you are not steeped in this, who cares?
The other thing I want to think about is that we are missing something in the United States. If you look at China, their missions to the moon are all about Chang’e, which is part of their mythology, the beautiful woman on the moon. In India, their missions are all Chandrayaan, also a mythical goddess. In the United States, we are borrowing from the Greek Artemis, and as non-Native Americans, we have no actual cultural tie to the moon. Justin, I would love to awaken that through the US indigenous community.
There are a few things, and I will do my best to try to address them all from the beginning. For the first part of your question, it’s like if you give a mouse a cookie, they are going to want a glass of milk. At the very start, there needs to be an established framework for responsible exploration of space and what is and isn’t allowed, but that’s only going to be developed if everyone is, again, interactive and has a seat at the table. That framework needs to be grounded in respect and needs to have consultation. It also needs to have cultural awareness. There is a difference between a bracelet and actual human remains. Some things may be acceptable, some things may not. It depends because, let’s face it, most of our laws, regardless of whether or not it’s Native American law, US law, or laws in other countries, a lot of them are developed based on religion.
It’s as simple as that because we have morals, we have ethical values, but our entire legal system is based on those ethical or moral principles, which are heavily influenced by religion itself. I mentioned the Navajo Nation we have specific laws on notification to people who may be affected adversely health-wise based on interactions with the dead. You have laws in Jewish society where if a pig is in a synagogue, that is so unclean, the synagogue probably has to be destroyed and rebuilt. Those are all things that take place in our society.
Taking that and understanding that in order to engage folks, a lot of the discussions that are happening are happening because people are unaware of the impact and they are unaware of things that are taking place. When I was reading some of the comments, especially by Celestis, when this mission happened. They were like, “This was in the Federal Register. People knew about this for a long time.” I would like to know who reads the Federal Register for fun.
This is the argument that we make to the federal government all the time. Just because you put something in the Federal Register does not meet the requirement of consultation under some of these other existing executive orders or these other policy changes because having a consultation means having a one-on-one discussion with somebody face-to-face and not putting it in the Federal Register and asking for public comment. Those are two separate things. Public comments are not a consultation in my opinion. That’s an opinion shared among a lot of tribes. That’s how this government, at least within the United States, has operated for the last few decades.
Understanding that there are different nuances and different approaches is going to be important in how we establish the future framework. Indigenous communities have made some strides in being able to be more involved in the governance process. We have the UNDRIP, the United Declaration of Rights for Indigenous People. A lot of countries are signatories to that, but recognize indigenous people as that sovereign entity, as that sovereign government, because there is an existing relationship and a governance relationship with these people.
People also have this misconception that all Native Americans are alike and we all practice one thing. That is not true. Over 500 unique tribes in the United States. We all have our different laws, we have all of our different practices when it comes to ceremony, culture, and religion, and we are not one large tribe. That goes for all of the Indigenous communities across the globe. Maori people, although we may have similar ideologies, we are completely two separate people.
We have different cultures, values, and governance structures, and that’s what people need to understand as to why Native Americans are not participating actively. It falls back on education or falls back on, “Even if we submit comments, the government’s not going to take this seriously. They never have. There’s that stigma that exists.
The Navajo Nation is doing a lot in being able to break down some of those barriers and bring these voices to the table. For the most part, Navajo accounts for about one-third of the entire on-reservation Indian population in America. When it comes to federal policy setting, a lot of tribes look to Navajo to establish those policies as the groundwork, and then we build upon that.
That’s a lot of things to consider as we move forward in a lot of these discussions. We need to foster that dialogue that prioritizes shared stewardship models and the protection of sacred spaces. Native Americans have demonstrated time and time again being good environmental co-stewards of lands and resources, and why not look to us to try to incorporate some of those principles onto the moon to make sure that we are having a sustainable future for everyone? The moon is going to be here long past our existence, but it’s up to us to make sure that she’s protected so that our future generations can have the opportunity to continue to interact with her. That’s all I have to say about that.
We need to foster dialogue that prioritizes shared stewardship models and the protection of sacred spaces.
You mentioned shared stewardship, and when you think about stewardship, you think about an environment that nurtures, and on Earth, it’s very easy to see. We need to protect our oceans because that is the bottom of the food chain, and it’s in our self-interest to be good stewards of the high seas. Giuliana, there’s no environment on the moon. What are we protecting? It wants to kill us. What are we stewarding?
Reframing Planetary Protection Policies
What we consider as an environment, an ecosystem, and as life, by our Western-centric, European-centric idea of life, is something that has to breathe, that some specific component. Maybe we don’t see what environmental ecosystems may exist on the moon. That is one idea of life. It’s our own. It doesn’t mean that it’s a shared idea of life, doesn’t mean that it’s a shared idea of a living system, and that is something that we need to probably start thinking about, start reframing.
We have a very anthropocentric perspective on the cosmos. We believe that the moon is a rock. We can use it, we can exploit it, and it’s there for us to use, and that is not, and you can see it in several different cosmologies, but even like thinking about our astronomical histories of centuries for like the system that connects the Earth and the moon is very well, even from an atrophy perspective.
The moon, the tides, the movement of animals, and several aspects of our life on Earth depend on the movement, of the visibility of the moon. The fact that we don’t see an environment because we don’t see trees or we don’t see animals is a very probably limited perspective, and we need to start thinking about the moon as something worthy of preservation because of its existence because its existence doesn’t depend on or doesn’t have necessarily to benefit our existence.
We coexist, we are interdependent, we are interconnected, and that’s why we should be preserving the moon. Not because we need to save it for something. For example, Les mentioned that planetary protection policies are very useful, but if we think about it, and look at the history of planetary protection policies, they have been created to preserve our scientific activities on celestial bodies.
For example, on the moon, we don’t have super strong planetary protection. There are different categories, and the moon is one of the less protected because there is no life. We are not going there to discover life. While on celestial bodies like Mars or other moons from Jupiter or other planets, we are trying to protect those bodies more because we believe that we may find life. We don’t want to bring our life from Earth onto those bodies, which means that we are not protecting those celestial bodies because we believe that they are worth preserving.
We are protecting those bodies because we want to protect our scientific research. If we think about it, many of the regulatory documents, and frameworks that have been established for space, even if in a certain way try to protect space, are still protecting our idea of space, our idea of using space or exploiting it. They believe there should be a reframing of how we approach space as if it is an infinite resource that is there for us to exploit and think about in a more interconnected way and a more value-based way, and I see that as race and our public that cannot see the rest and online.
I wanted to build off of that. At first glance, the moon may seem far removed from the daily struggles of life, working because we all work to provide for our families, care for our loved ones, or navigate life, but the moon has always been a part of our lives. Even when we are not actively looking at her, she plays an integral part in daily life in and of itself because she influences the seasons, tides, and our sense of time. Her presence reminds us that we are part of something larger, a web of life and relationships that connect all of us in a practical sense. How we treat the moon is how we treat Earth, and the Navajo Nation has seen firsthand the consequences of resource extraction without regard for balance or respect and what those long-term impacts are.
We know that once sacred places are disturbed, they can’t be restored to their natural sense. If we fail to honor the moon now, it sets a dangerous precedent in the future for what future we are building. We should be focusing on a future that prioritizes something long-term. Right now, the way that everything is set up is we are prioritizing short-term gains over a shared responsibility, and that’s not what we should be striving for.
For families, and this goes back to the original question about why people are not as involved, for people at home who are thinking about how they should get involved, know that the decisions we make about the moon, even though the future may feel very distant, are developing the world that we are going to be creating for the future.
We should be striving to create a world for the future that respects, balances, and guides our actions because, again, we only have one moon, that moon goes away, and life on Earth would probably cease to exist. We should be looking at it through that lens, that we should do things to preserve because a lot of these decisions are being made by the 1% of people who can make these decisions. While 99% of us are still here on Earth, and God forbid something happens and the moon is blown up, we are having to deal with those consequences. Now the 99% of us here on Earth are screwed. I wanted to add to that. I appreciate those comments.
We should strive to create a future world that truly respects, balances, and guides our actions.
That is also part of our problem in which we think about our activities on the moon in a very linear way. We think about it in the short political term. Even when we think about the future, we don’t think about the actual future generations. We think about maybe the next 10, 20, or 50 years. With our short-term thinking, we are preemptively shaping the choices, the environments, and all the possibilities that will be available for future generations. We need to start thinking about it in a more long-term way and see what we have been doing, and the mistakes that we have been doing on Earth, and they are already limiting our possibilities. Leo Lord Orbita is an example of that. We were thinking that space is finiteless. We can go to Leo, and we can send whatever we want, and then we are already seeing a tragedy in the lower two orbits. Do we want to do the same with the moon, with Mars, with asteroids, and whatever is out there around us?
Public Participation And Empowerment In Space Decisions
It’s that concept of the 1% making the decision is the reason for this show, because in the United States, you do have a voice, and on the one hand, we had a Supreme Court decision that took some of the authority away from our regulatory agencies, I would argue it put that authority back in the hands of the people. Now, our congressional representatives and Congress have not been doing their job at their optimum capacity. This is a real opportunity for people to start writing to their representatives and saying, “This is important to me, this is how I want our moon treated.” Justin, I love that you brought up, “If you give a mouse a cookie,” and then you say the moon reminds us that we are part of something larger. We span the intellectual concepts here.
This is what’s important and everybody is affected. Even if you never want to go to space, you are going to be affected by people who do go to space, and by the things that humans do in space. Everybody should have a say, and we need to change that 1% of decision-makers. Part of the reason it’s 1% is because people are too busy or they don’t think about it. People don’t know that there are 150 missions planned on the moon by 2033. That’s a colossal amount. What could go wrong? I could wax on and on, and I could listen to you guys talk for ages, but we do need to wrap up and be mindful of time. I’m going to hand it off to MC for our lightning round and associated questions, and this is a free association. MC, go.
We typically end with a little word association game. I’ll give a few keywords, and you can give your first thought of the word in response to that or how you would react to it. I want to make sure that we keep some order in this. Justin, Les, and then Giuliana will be the general order of responding to these. Justin, you are up first, and the first word is “space.” What is the first word that comes to mind when you hear space?
When I think of space, I think of the future. I’m going to leave it at that. I could go on in a monologue.
That’s good, Justin. Thank you so much. Les, “space.”
Curiosity. What’s out there? What’s over the horizon? Our insatiable need to explore and to find out what’s next.
Many of us who are interested in space are curious folk. Giuliana, “space.”
Possibility. The possibility of doing things differently than we did on Earth. Lots of possibilities we have in space.
More specifically in space. The moon, Justin.
The living deity.
Les, the moon.
Responsibility.
Giuliana.
Reflection. We see it every night, every day, and we can reflect. We want to go there if we want to go there.
Humanity, Justin.
What makes us human? Our cultures, our values, and what makes life worth living.
What makes us human and what makes life worth living are our culture and values.
Les, humanity.
That’s a tough one. To echo things that have already been said, possibility. What we can accomplish.
That’s a different perspective on that. Giuliana?
I would say interconnected.
Sustainability, Justin.
Probably preservation, being that stewardship model, and protecting resources for the future.
Les, sustainability.
Rational use.
That’s very elegant phrasing. Giuliana, sustainability.
I would say stewardship, but it was taken already, so I will go with balance. It’s something that sometimes we forget the balance of the ecosystems and the balance of different existences.
Justin, law.
Sovereignty, respect tribes.
I might’ve seen that one coming. Justin. Les, law.
Order.
That’s what we hope. That’s why we are lawyers. Giuliana, law.
I would say pluralism. We forget that there are pluralistic laws and frameworks and that we are used to using a single one. There are pluralistic sources that we may take from and learn from.
Justin, now as opposed to law, ethics.
Doing the right thing, even if it, sorry, doesn’t turn a profit.
Sometimes people say, “Doing the right thing even when no one’s watching,” or something like that. Les, ethics.
Respect.
Giuliana, what do you think about ethics? What comes to mind?
I would say “buzzword,” because we use it a lot in space, and then sometimes it is empty of any meaning. Maybe it’s a buzzword to make us reflect on what we believe it should be.
Of what you mean by that. Last one. Justin, the future.
The Future Of Space Exploration And Legacy
When I think of the future, I think of our children, our grandchildren, and what legacy are we going to be leaving behind. With the future also comes the past, and using the past to influence the future.
Les, the future.
Infinite possibility.
Giuliana, you’ll close us out here. The future.
Maybe intergenerational. It’s similar to what Justin said, but it’s very important.
Having that longer view. Thank you so much, all of you. It’s been an interesting discussion, and it’s been an interesting episode. I appreciate the echoes of the discussion and the wordplay that we had, summing that up. Thank you so much, everyone, for being part of the show and sharing your various perspectives with a broader audience and with folks who may not have thought about these issues and these questions. Maybe they will start thinking about them now.
Thanks, MC, and I want to say a fascinating discussion. What I took away from it, is that even as we raise our concerns about how we are treating the moon, even when we think about how important stewardship is going to be, all of our responses are very hopeful. Space is the future, and I hope that through this series, our readers embrace that space is the future, and it’s time to do the future responsibly, protect our past, and hail a future that is better than what we have had. Thank you all so much for your time, your wisdom, and for sharing your thoughts with us, and I look forward to protecting the moon.
Important Links
About Justin Ahasteen
Justin Ahasteen is the Executive Director of the Washington Office of the Navajo Nation. Justin Ahasteen carries a legacy that is as diverse as it is profound, hailing from a rich tapestry of cultural backgrounds.
Born Bilagáana (white) for Tótsohnii (Big Water), he is also descended from Kiisʼáanii (Hopi) through his paternal lineage, while his maternal roots are also Bilagáana. Growing up in White Cone, Arizona, Justin’s life has been a journey of bridging worlds, embodying the resilience and spirit of his ancestors.
He is a beacon of his community and a testament to the enduring strength of his heritage, proudly holding his educational beginnings from Holbrook High School close to his heart. Justin’s journey led him to the Navajo Nation Washington Office in 2021, where he assumed a pivotal role in shaping the future of the Navajo Nation’s Infrastructure, Veteran Affairs, Social Services, Health, and Public Safety initiatives.
His promotion to Executive Director by President Buu Nygren in January 2023 was a testament to his exceptional leadership and his relentless pursuit of advocacy for his people. As Executive Director, Justin’s influence on federal Indian policy has been nothing short of transformative.
He operates at the nexus of government relations and Indigenous sovereignty, striving tirelessly to ensure the voices and perspectives of the Navajo Nation are heard at the highest levels of government. His strategic guidance and advocacy work have been instrumental in securing resources, shaping policy, and creating systemic changes that promote the well-being and resilience of the Navajo people.
About Giuliana Rotola
Giuliana Rotola is an interdisciplinary lawyer and Junior Fellow at the Outer Space Institute. She holds a joint bachelor’s and master’s degree from the University of Trento in Comparative, European, and Transnational Law and a Master of Space Studies from the International Space University (ISU).
She has conducted research at the European Centre for Space Law (ECSL – ESA) and in the Institut du Droit de l’Espace et des Télécommunications (IDEST), and worked at the Leuven Center for Global Governance Studies.
Giuliana is also a research fellow at the Open Lunar Foundation, a 2020 Fellow in Space Studies at the Foresight Institute, and a member of the Legal Council of For All Moonkind. She co-hosts the podcast and blog “newmoon”, aimed at creating an inclusive and diverse future for lunar exploration.
Within Space Generation Advisory Council (SGAC), she serves as Space Law and Policy Project Group Co-Lead, as an advisor to the Task Force on U.S. Space Legislation, as Co-lead of the Satellite Constellations team for the Space Safety and Sustainability Project Group, and she is a member of the SGAC E.A.G.L.E. Action Team on effective and adaptive governance for a lunar ecosystem.
About Les Tennen
Les Tennen is a Space Lawyer and Attorney at Law at the private practice Sterns and Tennen and Chair of the IISL Election Committee. He is co-chair of the International Institute of Space Law Manfred Lachs Moot Court Committee. He is Legal Counsel and Member of the Board of Trustees of the International Academy of Astronautics.
He is also the Former Commissioner of the Arizona Space Commission and is a member of the new IAA Board of Trustees for 2023–2025. He is a former member of the IISL Board of Directors and former member of the IISL Audit Committee. His firm is also a member of the International Astronautical Federation.
He has focused on space law matters for more than 30 years. He is a partner in Sterns and Tennen, the first law firm to be elected to membership in the International Astronautical Federation.